A Little Bit About Candice:

Candice has more than 10 years of experience as an investment banker and, more recently, as a financial services COO and Chief of Staff, where she was tasked with driving operational efficiency, digital transformation, and scale ahead of a successful acquisition of a global merchant bank.

She is the trusted advisor to CEOs and senior executive teams due to her skilled approach to navigating complexity, her unique flair for combining analytical thinking with a considered approach to people strategy, and her effective ability to manage cross-functional stakeholders across all levels of the organization.

Her goal is to add value to boards and companies by leveraging her expertise in IPOs, M&A, people strategy, risk assessment, and P&L management, as well as her experience in multinational environments and cross-border deals, having lived, worked, and studied on 3 continents, working extensively with the U.S. and Europe, with a special interest in the Middle East.   

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TRANSCRIPTION:

JP McAvoy: Welcome to today’s show. We’ve got Candice Elsmore who’s been doing business on multiple continents, and is now doing so from Dubai and the UAE. Here’s my conversation with Candice Elsmore. Candice, thanks for joining us here today. We just spoke briefly a moment before hitting record, and we’re speaking of the heatwave here on the Eastern Seaboard to which you scoff and said, that’s nothing. I guess you’re saying the temperatures right now are 40 degrees Celsius over 100 degrees Fahrenheit there.

Candice Elsmore: That is correct. It is the beginning of the summer season, which is extremely hot. Many people like me who have moved from higher tax jurisdictions have a similar experience where typically the weather is cooler, but the tax is higher. So we will make the inverse, and we are struggling with the heat. But looking forward to some of the other benefits of being here.

JP McAvoy: That’s right. How long have you been there for?

Candice Elsmore: I have been here for a relatively short period of time. It’s been about eight months.

JP McAvoy: Eight months. You spent 10 years in London, you mentioned?

Candice Elsmore: Yes. 10 years in London. The majority of those are investment bankers working at Goldman Sachs in London. And then most recently as the CFO for a medium sized company, which was advising technology investors and businesses.

JP McAvoy: Okay. I’d like to get into some of that and just more of your history, because I guess originally from South Africa, right?

Candice Elsmore: Yes, that’s correct. I’ve been living on many continents. Now, this is going to be my fourth so I am really getting a good purview into operating in different cultural environments, which I have to say, if you think it gets easier over time, and I think it does, but it never completely goes away.

JP McAvoy: Yeah. And that’s just a recurring theme. I think that we see that through business and through cultures. So what’s the culture in Dubai? Right now, we hear so many good things. It’s clearly open for business and spaces that we’re most interested in are the crypto AI spaces.

Candice Elsmore: My experience has been overwhelmingly positive. I think we’ve seen a huge amount of favorable momentum from the government in terms of their willingness and their ability to support those two pillars. So AI and crypto in the AI space. The government, well, it’s one of the funds where the shareholder is the majority owner. But Mubadala announced a 100 billion fund, which is going to be primarily investing in AI. And that would be AI all the way across the value chain. So from semiconductors all the way to software and data centers. And that was announced in March, obviously, that would be looking into some of the largest AI players in the world. And we haven’t seen any government announce anything of this size. I think that just shows their willingness to be very aggressive in sectors where they think there is a favorable headwind and something where they can position the UAE as a leader. So from my perspective, there’s a huge amount of willingness to have talent come in. There’s favorable tax jurisdiction for both individuals, for companies and long term visas. The Golden visa process is very easy and makes it very attractive for people to come in here. And then the stability of doing business means that we’re seeing a lot of momentum of people moving funds and offices both into the UAE, but also into Saudi Arabia.

JP McAvoy: And what does that look like if someone is contemplating a move there? As you say, they’ve made it as frictionless as possible. But yeah, for somebody who’s interested in coming first just to work or establish a business there, what does the process look like?

Candice Elsmore: On crypto, I was recently discussing with a fund in Hong Kong who are looking to move to Abu Dhabi. The local market player is ADGM,  Abu Dhabi Global Market. They’re providing them a number, their 10 year visas and the firm of golden visas, and they’re very favorable pricing in terms of registration, helping them find places to stay, helping them find schools for their kids. Really making the barriers to entry as low as possible to the point where this particular fund, which is based in Hong Kong, sees the proximity to being in an area where they have access at least from a timezone perspective to the bulk of the world as being very beneficial and the financial incentives to do so are extremely open. And then I think from an individual, it’s pretty easy. There’s a number of visas, I think they’re always on the lookout for great talent. You just go on the golden visa website and list all of them out there. But I think my perception is if people have skills or particular acumen that is wanted in the region, there’s an appetite to support that.

JP McAvoy: Yeah, they’ve made it clear. They’re open for business, right? And the word is getting out, obviously, and you’re helping spread that just by virtue of this. What things are you working on these days?

Candice Elsmore: So I’m advising a number of startups who are looking to come into the region, primarily in the FinTech space. They are European based startups, and many of the people who will be listening to the show are encouraged by the favorable demographics in the region and the momentum and are looking to expand in the region. So that’s where I’ve been spending the bulk of my time.

JP McAvoy: Obviously, as things continue to grow, the doors are open for business. What things look like there in the next two, three years?

Candice Elsmore: Particularly what we are seeing in places like Europe, I think it’s going to continue to be more and more attractive for people to move to the region. So I think you’re going to continue to have, maybe 15 years ago, it was more of a push versus pull. Whereas now, I think people are actually being drawn to the region. In fact, by the safety, the pro-business attitude of the government, and as well as the favorable tax jurisdiction particularly in places like Europe where the direction of travel for taxes is probably up.

JP McAvoy: Yeah, right. It’s going in the wrong direction from many people’s perspective. So yes, as you say, becomes more of a poll in that sense. And what’s it like as a woman doing business there? Do you ever feel any separation as being a female?

Candice Elsmore: I have found it to be very positive. I think there’s a high degree of respect for women, which candidly I was surprised how favorable that was. I think that women tend to have a high kind of place in society in the UAE, and I think that’s mirrored in the business. The business channels, if anything, I’ve found during my time working in the City of London to have been slightly more aggressive than what I’ve experienced here. So I was very positively surprised.

JP McAvoy: It’s interesting to hear even the contrast between what you experienced in London and what you were experiencing there. What is the social scene like? Outside of business hours, what do people do for fun?

Candice Elsmore: It’s a great place. For families, it’s sunny pretty much the entire year round. There’s a huge open space so most people are spending their time outdoors. It’s a very kid friendly environment so most people with children are driven by just the lifestyle aspect. A lot of time spent outside. The work life balance piece is probably a lot better than in big cities. I’m personally enjoying the more healthy kind of lifestyle that I didn’t necessarily have as much access to whilst I was in London.

JP McAvoy: It’s interesting as you describe it, because it’s maybe other than what we expect to hear. We know business, finance and tax favorable jurisdiction, but we don’t think of family and an outdoor space as well. So it’s nice to hear that. We’ve been involved in AI previously in a previous life, what do you think the nature of AI is, not just Dubai specific or the UAE specific, but with respect to the industry as a whole. What does that look like in the next couple of years?

Candice Elsmore: So I think it’s fascinating what’s happening. I think it’s clear from an investor perspective that it’s difficult to tell who were the winners. So I think a broad investment approach where, if you’re sitting from an investor hat, there’s a piece around the semiconductors, there’s a piece around the software, there’s a piece around data centers, there’s a piece around cooling. There’s an entire ecosystem that AI will touch, and it’s not sure who the biggest winners or losers are. So I think having some broad investment exposure to all of them is probably helpful. I was speaking with a former colleague the other day who said something to me, which I thought was quite interesting. Sometimes, we’re too bullish too early on things, but then they end up having a longer life cycle than we predict. So potentially in the context of AI, I would say that probably means where maybe there’s a little while probably a lot of exuberance at the moment driven by open AI, a couple of key players TSMC in Taiwan. But a lot more smaller activity, less clear on what the revenue opportunity is. But I think it’s here to stay. As I said, before when I was a COO, it’s a game changer bringing just things like Chat GPT into your office. The amount of time that can be saved, asking it, how should I do this? Teach me about that. Helped me draft this email. Work out my schedule for me. I think you can increase your productivity around 30 or 40%. And I think that’s pretty huge. And I think in a lot of small businesses, Chat GPT, the 3.5 version is free. And candidly, that’s what I was using. And it was amazing how much more quick you’re accurate. More quicker, more accurate, and more impactful. Everyone in my team was able to be when they were using Chat GPT. So I think it’s huge. I could talk forever about the kinds of things businesses can automate using Chat GPT. It’s huge.

JP McAvoy: It’s gonna change everything. Like you say, we may be early. And oftentimes, we were saying it’s just as bad to be early as wrong. So we’re early, but we clearly know it’s going to be here. It is the future. We’re exploring looking for the best ways to employ it. Chat GPT is one that we’re making sure that people are all aware of and starting to use. Because if they’re not using it, you’re going to be replaced by somebody that is using it is the one exact thing I think that we’re all very aware of. Are there any other tools or any of the things that you’ve seen that people ought to be familiarizing themselves with?

Candice Elsmore: I would say the first tricky piece, and I think Microsoft is going to alleviate some of this with copilots, because they will insource a number which have traditionally been sold by external providers. You would be familiar with this as well, just the kind of compliance piece. So I would put a very big signpost on, I read a story about an employee at Samsung who was putting confidential information unknowingly about a particular device. And then I don’t know how, but it ended up coming back to a separate person via Chat GPT, and that person lost their job. So I think it’s very important that you anonymize. One thing that I’ve seen to be very helpful is message transcription. So much message transcription in terms of virtual meetings. There’s a company called Otter Ai. I know teams are doing it. I think there’s some functionality on Zoom, but I found that to be incredibly helpful. Again, if there is a piece around privacy and what people want recorded, it’s important to always make sure that that is being considered. But I found those a huge time saver. It helps you take actionable insights previously, at least in the legal field. And again, I think there’s a piece around privacy which needs to be considered particularly in places like the UK and Europe where you have data protection. But instead of someone scribing something which can take two to three hours and it’s probably wrong, it can be done instantaneously. So it’s just huge.

JP McAvoy: It’s a really powerful technology. You say multiple uses, and we’re just starting to see the beginning of them. Certainly, transcribing, having all this data available to us is very powerful. And then we’re looking to train the AI in the best possible ways. I’ve worked with some companies, they’re doing just that to create the best data sets for the AI to be generating from as well. So important that we do this. The developer defines what the future looks like. What does the future hold for you in the next couple of years? What do you expect to be able to accomplish?

Candice Elsmore: It’s a very good question. Actually, I’m definitely enjoying advising companies in a more independent capacity. That being said, I think for me, I consider opportunities through the lens of learning impact and growth, and an alignment of those three aspects and values. I should probably put it in there as well. So if there’s an independent opportunity that kind of ticks all of those boxes, then I would definitely consider it. But right now, given the level of growth and just what’s happening, I’m enjoying advising the companies that I’m looking at. I’m enjoying the variety that I’m being given. It’s allowing me to check that trifecta.

JP McAvoy: Variety is the spice of life, isn’t it? So it’s great to see that you’re enjoying that and to be able to benefit from that. If someone’s looking to do business in Dubai, UAE, in the Middle East or beyond, what’s the best way to reach you? What’s the best way to make contact with you?

Candice Elsmore: So I’m very active on LinkedIn. I’d love for people to reach out and follow me. It’s just Candice Elsmore. I think there’s only one of me so you won’t miss it. But yeah, I’d love to stay in touch and follow the conversation with anyone who is keen to speak more.

JP McAvoy: Absolutely. Because as we said, this reads the beginning of something we know. It’s the beginning of something big so let’s continue the conversation. I like to end these conversations with one thing that’s worked for you through your life, through business, through personal. Something that you’ve heard that stuck with you. Something that someone listening now may be able to take with them to the rest of the day, the rest of the week after they’ve listened to this show. Is there something that you’ve heard that really spoken over the years to tell you might be willing to share with others? Yes,

Candice Elsmore: I’m a huge proponent of the growth mindset. So for me, the prioritization of learning and growth versus outcomes. I think if you constantly have a mindset where you are thinking about things in terms of those two, those two lenses being growth and learning, it really helps you have a very kind of enriching life. Helps you meet great people, and have conversations like we’re having today. So I would definitely focus on everyone. There’s a great book written by Carol Dweck on the Growth Mindset so I would encourage everybody to read that.

JP McAvoy: That’s great stuff. Candice, thanks so much for joining us here today. We’ll all continue to grow together. Thanks so much. I look forward to next time we get a chance to chat.

Candice Elsmore: Thank you so much, JP.