A Little Bit About Jerome:

Jerome Scullino is a renowned photographer and artist based in Montreal, with studios across Canada and the United States. Known for his unique approach to capturing human connections, Jerome specializes in creating transformative photographic experiences that reveal the extraordinary in each individual. With a background spanning from the Caribbean to Canada, he has developed a distinctive style that goes beyond traditional portraiture, focusing on relationships, emotions, and the unseen moments of human interaction. 

Jerome is not just a photographer, but an artist who believes in paying attention with love, and his work has been praised for its depth and ability to capture the essence of his subjects. He continues to expand his creative pursuits, including writing and exploring new business opportunities, always driven by a philosophy of abundance and personal growth.

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TRANSCRIPTION:

JP McAvoy: So Jerome, thanks for joining us here on The Millionaire’s Lawyer. How are you doing? I’m not sure if it’s sunny, but you’re in Montreal right now. 

Jerome Scullino: In Montreal in my workshop, and there’s thunderstorms today.

JP McAvoy: Well, maybe that will inform the conversation a little bit.

Jerome Scullino: Yeah. It started with a beautiful sunrise, and then the weather changed really fast. But thank you for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity and the new experience. It’s exciting, a shave for the event, which is very rare. We like to have our special Tom Law look. We’re very outdoorsy here. 

JP McAvoy: It looks great. And we’ve been meaning to have this conversation quite some time, so thanks for joining us here today. And you mentioned so you’re in the workshops. Tell us what type of work you’re doing there.

Jerome Scullino: So the workshop is also a studio. This is where I meet my Montreal clients, unlike Ottawa and Toronto or Miami, they’re a little bit unluckier. They have to drive a little longer to get to see me. So the entrance first is a desk, and then my studio where I capture images, and then I have my workshop where I print, where we paint, where we create artwork. And so it’s a labor laboratory of discoveries and connections. So it’s one of my favorite spaces.

JP McAvoy: I love it. I know the work as well. I’m obviously a big fan, and I’ve loved having collaborated already with you. But those that haven’t seen the work, please do check it out. We’ll get into how to find all that in a few minutes. But you talk about your favorite place and a laboratory. It’s interesting because you’ve experimented a lot over the years, haven’t you? And that experimentation really discovered some things. What are some of your recent discoveries? What are some of the things that are coming up for these days? What’s motivating you to create new work?

Jerome Scullino: Well, the drive is always the connection. So I find that a visual artist is photographing or capturing what is not seen. So it’s a bit for most people, it sounds like an oxymoron. Or can you photograph what’s not seen? But that’s really what’s really interesting. So for many, many years I’ve been doing this, but I’ve never been able to communicate it in a way that made sense. So a lot of people meet me and say, oh, we love your experience. Or you’re not just a photographer, you’re an artist. But I never really understood what it meant. And sometime, about six months or a year ago, I came to a realization that one of the most beautiful things one can do is paying attention with love. For example, you arrive at a beautiful place and you pay attention to that beauty, it is transformative in its own way. If someone throws garbage there, you will be like, okay, this is beautiful. You’re going to just pick it up. And that’s how transformative paying attention is, especially when you do it with the intent of love. And I realized that what I was doing in my studio was not very different when people came. I was really paying attention to them, really seeing them with intent of love, with intent of care, with intent of what makes you extraordinary as a person. And that way of seeing my client, seeing you, seeing your family was a transformative experience for my client. And that’s when I realized that it allowed me to prepare them for a session like, instead of trying to create a makeover, get your hair done, get your makeup done, dress to the nines, I was like, all I need you to do is quit the internal dialog and be present. That’s the key. 

JP McAvoy: To be the present. You say with love, it’s coming from love. But the reality is being around you, it’s evidence. It’s your present. You’re in the moment, and you share, sincerely genuine, and it comes down to the voice of love right now. You said that only six months or a year ago, I’m surprised to hear that it would have struck me as something that you’ve been doing throughout your life. 

Jerome Scullino: Yeah, I’ve been doing it throughout my life, but I was only able to communicate it now. So what happens is that you do something, we are the worst enemy. All of a perceived failure, and that’s really important as a perception because I think the journey is as important as the result, is the fact that we sabotage ourselves. And sabotage ourselves is when we sabotage our inner voices. We were talking about this earlier. And what I mean is that we get trapped in the world because it wasn’t ever what they are. We get trapped in our thoughts, again, this idea of presence, and we are trapped to what we believe is right, or this is the way it’s done. I mean, actually, this is a very famous thing in sales. I think it’s Seth Godin, who said that, for example, you come to my studio and I tell you, everybody buys this product. You have 80% chances to sell that product. This is the way we are wired. Because everybody does it, we will do it. And so that very behavior which we learn is a very behavior that prevents us from our greater potential. 

JP McAvoy: So interesting, right? Because we learned something, and it often pulls us back as opposed to, I think what you’re describing is, well, actually maybe let’s put it to your word. So what do we need to do in order to realize our potential?

Jerome Scullino: So for me, it begins with faith, this inner belief that it will work.

JP McAvoy: And it was trust, right?

Jerome Scullino: I trusted that it would work. I think it’s really important. Because the minute you have an idea which is different and you communicate it, you’re not going to be welcomed. The idea is not welcomed, and you usually face fairly harsh criticism if I tell you that I don’t believe in saving, and I don’t believe in retirement. 

JP McAvoy: The response, that’s the whole contrary to what you know. Well, I’ll say the mainstream media is teaching us, or what we’re learning in school. From day one of work, you’re saving for retirement, some people would say. Whereas I know with you, and we’ve discussed this as well, you’re not talking retirement. You’re doing what you’re passionate about. You have no intention of retiring. Like a true entrepreneur, frankly, you enjoy exploring and are passionate about things that you’re exploring. 

Jerome Scullino: Not only that, but there’s a lot of assumptions. When we say we need to set for the future, when we believe something called security, and in the name of security, we make some of the greatest sacrifices in our lives. And are they worth it? So when we talk about money and providing, typically it’s a go, go, go, go. I need to provide for my wife, I need to provide for my children. Go, go, go, go, go, go. If you take this in a different cultural context, let’s say a hunting gathering society, go, go, go, go, go. I was not losing sleep at night. I’m going to go hunting. So now, when you’re depressed, we go out for walks, we go to nature. But here in a hunter gathering society, it’s disintegrated. So you never feel the stress like we do in modern days. So the question is, how do you deal with pressures? And while you do all of this, is it right for you? What is your little voice saying? They say, okay, I had enough. I need a holiday. Obviously, there was not enough. I need more. Maybe I need a peer. Is it really fulfilling your desires? Is it really fulfilling us? Is it allowing us to think in a way that actually makes more sense for our lives?

JP McAvoy: You just live in that? Or do you sit back and contemplate that?

Jerome Scullino: So I don’t read many books and I don’t watch many YouTube videos. I think to me, everything is studied for survival. I was sent to boarding school when I was 11 years old. So I was in a room with 60 other kids separated by a curtain. And if you want the first one to be in the shower, you are the cold shower. At 11 years old, you were 14 years old, and you’re going to be the last because it’s the law of the strongest. So from a very young age, everything that motivated me was survival. So I started photography when I was very young, but I never saw it as a means to make a living because I was told that I need to have an education. Being a lawyer, a doctor, what was the best? I come from parents who weren’t educated. My father stopped schooling when he was 12. My mother at 14. They went to the food industry. Because with no education, that’s probably the easiest way to earn money. They got some success there, and so they really pushed education on me because that’s something they didn’t have. And so survival is key. So everything I’ve done was, first of all, I lacked confidence in myself. 

I’m also a dyslexic. And for the longest time, I thought I was stupid. People like me have evolved since the 80s. And first, we were disabled, and we became special, then we became exceptional. I think now, I’m fabulous. So these are my personal journeys, right? And through all of these struggles, you start thinking, okay, so I’m different. I need to put a meal on my plate. I’ve traveled a lot already. I don’t really have this national route. I picked up a camera professionally at the age of 19, and I earned my first award. I think I was 20 and I was working for a company, and I already had my images in the first page of a newspaper. But I never saw this as a means to an end, which was making money, paying my rent and putting food on the table. While I was doing all of this, everybody was telling me that I should go back to university. I had an education, and get a real job. So by 21, I had my own photography business in the Caribbean, and I gave it up, came to Canada and did the university thing.

JP McAvoy: Because that’s what we’re supposed to do. 

Jerome Scullino: Those four years in the Caribbean were probably more formative than any other things I’ve done in my life. I remember staying at 19, my parents had left the country and I was left alone. I had no money. I was sleeping under a house made of coconut leaves. I remember this very nice Swiss lady who had a hotel seeing me and feeling sorry for me, and say, hey, you can fry a chicken and I’ll go, I’ll drive, like this community little minivan where everybody’s buy like $1 and you pack like 15 or 16 in it to go places. And I’ll go there, get my chickens, kill them, bring them back and sell fried chicken at night. And I’ll poison the whole city because there is no electricity, so sometimes the freezer will not work for days, and I was trying to survive, literally. So when a photo company decided to hire me as a photographer, but again, survival. So I came to Canada, and I met my wife. My wife was the first one to recognize, oh, you have talent, Jerome. You should do this. But I was looking for a government job. 

JP McAvoy: I see that, because that was the thing to do, right? You get educated, get a government job.

Jerome Scullino: We’re talking about 2000 at the time. And I just did computer science and math just to be making sure that I make money and provide for my family. But my universe was never satisfied. So after university, in the same year, I did 11 different jobs. And my wife was a school teacher then. And I remember my wife and our co workers especially were like betting. How long would Jerome last any new given job? And Nisha was looking at my photography and was saying, you know Jerome, you’re talented, maybe that’s what you should do. And I was like, and this is what you self sabotage because you’re like, that’s not what I’m supposed to do. I’m not really good, I’m not really capable.

JP McAvoy: Not the traditional thing. I’m supposed to get educated and get a government job, right? 

Jerome Scullino: I’ve done my max amount of years in university. I got my degree. Here’s my resume. I went to the Headhunter office. Sorry, they call it HR, and I get my resume, and I’m dressing the right way.

JP McAvoy: The real job, I hear it.

Jerome Scullino: And then if you fail in, I’m doing everything. 

JP McAvoy: It’s still interesting that your wife recognizes it as well. I’ve had this conversation with many successful entrepreneurs. It’s the things that you’re doing younger, when you’re younger, and when you’re passionate about them that end up really becoming things all consuming, right? So you hone your craft because it became obviously this theme of, maybe we should get back to this photography, right? Let’s try this photography again as well. I mean, business has grown dramatically since, but what was the switch? When did that switch to photography occur? And how did that change things for you?

Jerome Scullino: 2002 is when I started my first photography company, in Ottawa, and I was doing a lot of weddings then. And I think when people started paying me for my work, I started to gain some confidence in what I was doing, and then I started to think about what it is I was doing. You know what? What am I? Am I documenting someone’s life? Or is there more to my craft? So I started asking myself those questions, and I started transforming my business, and this is where I started to really differentiate myself from other artists in the sense that at first, I felt okay at a wedding. The most important part is not the bride and groom. The most important part is the mother, the father of the bride, and his brother who live in a different country that are coming to this event and see each other for the first time in 10 years, that’s a relationship I should really follow.

JP McAvoy: You’re good at capturing that. I’m sure the moments are the moments between them that they shared.

Jerome Scullino: Well, remember, I’m an immigrant. By the age of 24, I already traveled. I have a world, so I understand what it is to miss your parents, miss your friends. And so I go to weddings, and I started to see the relationship happening in the background. And I’m like, I can take pictures of that couple before, after. But this is not about the couple, it’s about everybody coming to that party. So I started to shift the way I photographed the weddings, and put more focus on those relationships. The little niece looking at the bride, looking at her thinking, wow, I would love to be in a dress like this. Not that she wants to get married, but she’s thinking, wow, this is a queen. This is a goddess. And capturing this wonder, because everything is magical to be as a child, brothers and sisters, uncles and grandparents coming. The other thing I loved in weddings too, I realized that it was one of the last rights we have in North America, which is multi-generational where young children and grandparents, or great grandparents actually relate to each other. If you walk anywhere now, we go to school with people of a certain age, and we work within a certain age. And arriving at a certain age, you disappear. You’re not part of society anymore. You become invisible. And so that’s another thing that I realized that I really need to photograph was this intergenerational relationship as well.

JP McAvoy: I don’t know how we said this before, how do you describe the love, did you capture these moments in between? How do you say that initially is like photographing which can’t see, as you describe it, within that relationship?

Jerome Scullino: So whether you come to my studio with Botox and plastic surgery or not makes no difference to me. Whatever makes you happy, I’m not here to empower you. This is such a misused term. I’m not only here to reveal what’s extraordinary about you. That’s how I feel, and so that’s my focus, and that’s what interests me. So you never see me go to a war zone and take pictures of people shooting each other. But in a human condition, it really interests me. I don’t find that it’s elevating to anyone, but being seen for what is extraordinary is such a rewarding experience. You’ve come to the studio, I think you understand what I mean. I can tell you what’s the greatest pleasure for me in my life. I have two daughters, and seeing those two daughters relate to each other in a loving manner is probably, yeah, there’s nothing that can be done, right?

JP McAvoy: So that’s amazing. And what you do there is you do the same thing when you’re working with people in your studio. And obviously, it’s resonating with those that have worked with you, and the business has grown. You’ve got to, well, Ottawa originally, but then Montreal or Montana, and then Toronto was that the next. And now, Miami. 

Jerome Scullino: I studied in Ottawa. And then during 2000, between 2009 and 2012, I opened an art gallery in Montreal. After three years, I sold because I was more of a coffee maker than I was an art so I didn’t enjoy that aspect. Then I opened Toronto. I found it easier to do business in Ontario, because that’s what I was used to. Then the pandemic came, so I had to close all my studios. Then I reopened Ottawa. First reopened Toronto, because we have lots of clients there. And then I wanted to go to Miami, and so I started this year. And meanwhile, because during the pandemic, I sold my house in Ottawa, and I moved to (inaudible), and we started to get success here in Quebec. And so we started to advertise what I do here, and that’s also building slowly.

JP McAvoy: It’s just grown, though, as you say, for putting it at the right rate, and working with people and feeling that. And then those that have had the experience have spoken to others, right? I think you’re probably the biggest, I mean, I’m sure the biggest way to find you is via word of mouth, right? Having someone that has worked with you.

Jerome Scullino: It’s fortunate at the same time that, unless you go through the experience, you don’t really know. I’m kind of lost amid like thousands of other artists, right? Like I said, the experience is probably as important as the image. So the image I captured for you is very meaningful. But someone not going from the experience or not having bad sensitivity might not see what you see. A lot of them do, but I think they only realize when they are at the studio. Like yesterday, Sunday, I had a client, and they left me a Google review. They said, if you are going for a portrait, don’t go to Jerome. Jerome is an experience. That’s what he wrote. And that’s really interesting, because they signed up, they saw my imagery, they went to my website. They probably read some of my blog posts, but they really rely on the difference when they have the experience.

JP McAvoy: They actually go through the experience itself, right? So we should get to this as well. Make sure that we’re saying this. For those that are interested in seeing some of your work and being able to follow you, what’s the best way to connect with you?

Jerome Scullino: The best way is probably through my website at jerome.art. My phone is great. We love the phone. We are a small team. It’s a family team. My wife works with me. My daughter works with me. My two best friends work with me, and I travel. So there’s not three or four photographers in the studios. We dedicate time. We dedicate at least two hours per client to three, depending on what it demands. And so we are a boutique studio in that sense, and we’re growing slowly. But we are really dedicated to the experience, to create something that everybody who comes to the studio is a separate project. I don’t have set poses, pet lighting conditions. You’re not coming after one another and doing the same thing.

JP McAvoy: And then that focused attention, as we say. It’s obviously paramount, and it’s growing, as we talk about the multiple locations. All these different locations, what’s it been like growing? It’s interesting. The growth of your business also mirrors some of the broader events that have occurred. You talked about the pandemic, there was a certain stop there in the pandemic. And then as you’ve become, well, I guess, actually back to the original Caribbean, but expanded through Canada, and back now into the United States. At that time, we’ve got a Trump administration, which is also a throw fits and starts for us. What’s it been like growing? What’s it been like being entrepreneurial during times, difficult times, but always driving forward, always driving the business forward?

Jerome Scullino: So to me, the first thing I’ve learned is not to make excuses. As a business owner, it’s really easy to find excuses of why things don’t work, and then we basically self sabotage into failure. So the first thing is I don’t take excuses like, it’s because of COVID that I’m not successful. It’s because everybody’s struggling now because of Trump or the tariff, or because of this, or because of that. So the minute you embrace that language, you may as well close doors. I think also in every time of challenges, there’s an opportunity. So this is why I become the most, I say prolific in ideas because I’m like, where’s the opportunity? I was talking to a friend about the insight that Trump started with, back in January, I think of February when he said Canada should become the 31st, 51st, too bad we responded to this with ego. We should say, oh, great idea to get two nations closer to each other. Why don’t you give residency or work permits to any Canadian who wants to come. If that’s what you really want, let’s just get closer. You don’t get married before you get to know someone. If our politicians responded like this, we would be in a very different place. So okay, here is an offer. Let’s see what we can do about it.

JP McAvoy: Here’s your positive vantage point. Again, you being open and looking to explore the potential in any situation, what are some situations that you’re exploring now that would be outside of your regular work domain? Are you doing some writing now? Are you doing some exploration in other areas as well? Can you speak to those?

Jerome Scullino: There’s a few things that I’m looking into. I do have a farm I inherited from my parents in the Dominican Republic, and this is a love and hate relationship. I’ve invested a lot of money, and it doesn’t turn out the way I want it, but it’s a fabulous opportunity to do something with it. Whether it’s to develop it, to sell it, or be in the food industry, which is interesting in itself. I also had an offer to invest in a boat yacht company in Dubai. If you know me, I love boats, and I love this year as well, and that’s a world that I’m looking into and talks about that aspect. I always refuse to be on a tour to teach other photographers or artists the craft. I just didn’t think it was for me, but Nisha is changing my mind on that. She brought me some ideas. And so now, I’m more open minded about that, and I think I started writing because of that.

JP McAvoy: Sorry, questions can lead you towards some of the writing again as well. I didn’t realize what had inspired that. I want to make sure people are able to find some of the writing. What’s the best way to find the writings that you’re doing?

Jerome Scullino: On my website, on my blog, and on Medium. So on medium is medium.com/@jeromescullino. You know my last name, my first and last name. So that’s very new. You’ll see maybe a dozen articles. But I’ve only started a few months ago, so that’s pretty cool. So while writing, I find that as you write, it gives you a certain notoriety, and it also enables you to really get your thoughts out there, and opens a dialog. And so I was like, if I’m going to teach, and let’s say, if I’m going to have something valuable to say, writing will be the beginning of a proof to approve of that. And then I realized that I really enjoyed writing too, and I communicated with my creative writing teacher when I first came to the state. Her name is Susan, she’s a famous novelist in New York. We kind of rekindled this kind of friendship. And obviously, she’s very motivated and very passionate about writing, so she kind of gave me an altitude as well. And then there’s Michael Sandler, who’s a friend of mine, the famous Youtuber, and he teaches a lot about energy. Our energy is important in our lives. He teaches his class about automatic writing, which is giving up early in the morning, and kind of between sleep and awakeness where you can get in touch with your higher self and right stream of consciousness. And so all of these, and I was really brought up with bad aspects as well. They kind of all come together like, they’re not piecemeal of projects. I don’t really believe you can be one thing and then another. I don’t believe in a home life versus work, work versus holidays. We were talking about that. I think that life deserves to be lived fully and in the present. So I think that’s what my focus is, and just follow my heart, follow my passion. And I think that it will work. 

JP McAvoy: This is such a great philosophy to have, and it’s taking you to where you were now, to this moment now as we get to enjoy these experiences together. What did things look like over the next couple of years? Learn this philosophy and continue as you do, what do things look like if we’re having this conversation two years from now?

Jerome Scullino: So there’s a few things I’ve been thinking of as a legacy. I capture a lot of imagery of families and immortalizing legacy. So I’m thinking of legacy. I have two daughters, and you met one of them. You’ve been so much fun to work with. You do such an incredible job. And I wrote to my daughter to talk about building a business that she should be part of, and where she can also engage and build our dreams, build energy. I think I was telling you, I’m so grateful for all the struggle as well as the successes. But what I’ve seen in the past year through the pandemic is something invaluable. And the realization that I’m not doing what I’m doing to get more bookings or more money, I think abundance comes. And when you have faith in abundance, I find that my motivator, my main motivator now is to communicate what I do, because I love what I do. And I think that the results in people’s lives are important, so that’s my reward. I don’t know if I can express that.

JP McAvoy: And it’s that philosophy, right? Because it does matter, and it’s important. More people don’t think this way, because I do the same thing. As I’m speaking with entrepreneurs, it’s oftentimes very limiting as they’re trying to be secure. Trying to prevent this asset from occurring, as opposed to living and thriving. The most successful entrepreneurs are those that just leap. They trust, they take a leap forward. They know there’ll be struggles to get there, but they continue moving forward. And it’s such an important thing, and it’s not instinctual. As you say, it’s the things that we’ve learned. The most well educated people are going to be in secure positions, but they’re not going to be the entrepreneurs creating. And we need more entrepreneurs. We need people creating, and you’re doing just that.

Jerome Scullino: I wrote an article not long ago called, Don’t Compete. Create!. And I did this because I saw a lot of artists out there trying to take some of my content. I heard some of my friends comparing their work to others and I was like, don’t worry about these things. Don’t compete. Just create. Just create, because nobody can compete with your creation. You will attract what you put out of this world. So if you put fear in this world, if you have this fear of failure, you’re self sabotaging. You’re comparing yourself. You’re really putting a ton of energy in the wrong place. And often, you record what you put out there. This is logic. It’s not even something extraordinary. If I plant corn, I will get corn. If I stop thinking I should be planting corn, but he’s planting that type of corn, and you’re not planting anything? All you’re getting is the energy you put out there. And so in everything, there’s no failure possible in my mind. It’s not like I go to a meeting as a business owner, I don’t know if that happened to you, but there’s always this life changing deal. That if you get this client, or this deal will transform your business. And if you go there thinking with a plan B, you’re not ready for that clap changing. I go in everything I do. When I started figuring out that I’m going to go to Nami, I never had it. I never thought it would not work, ever. I didn’t do plan B, plan C, A, I just went there.

JP McAvoy: You believe you created it. You trusted it. There would be struggles or struggles with others, but you knew you’d also work through them. You trusted YOU to work through them, and it continues, as I say, that’s the progress.

Jerome Scullino: For me, there’s a plan. It’s like a budget, right? If you’ve got money, you budget it, then you know where you’re going. If you just go somewhere with no budget, then, yeah.

JP McAvoy: You still trust all the money that’s required is going to be there regardless. I mean, at the time it needs to be there, it’s going to be there?

Jerome Scullino: Yeah. That’s a very deep question. And this is something that I put myself in other people’s seats, right? They look at me and often tell me, oh, you’re lucky. You do something you love. It’s a choice. You choose your consequences, right? There’s always consequences. Everything we buy is based on consequences. If you don’t take that insurance, you may get into trouble. And a lot of decisions are basically about the consequences of doing or not doing something. I learned a huge lesson from the Bible. You don’t have to be Christian to see it. But about abundance, I read an article written by Richard Rohr, a well known Franciscan friar from New Mexico, I think. And yeah, that was very, very powerful in the Bible. There’s a different miracle of multiplicity where Jesus comes and he’s got an audience of 2000 and a disciple comes and says, we only have this piece of bread and a fish of two. We won’t be able to feed everybody. And Jesus comes and multiplies everything. And there’s always a sentence, everybody was fed and there were more left. And he was explaining in this article that that’s abundance. But unfortunately, we live in a world where we have a scarcity complex, and that’s really interesting. What’s the scarcity complex? Well, that’s where we believe that there’s limited things. It’s not infinite. And because it’s not infinite and limited, there’s not enough for everybody, and we have to start accumulating for ourselves. And it’s not that we’re bad or good people, we take it for granted. That’s the way it is. So now you’re alone, you accumulate a little bit, but not so much. You’re not too worried you’re alone. 

But then you get married, and now, okay, I have a family. I need a house. I have to prepare, so you start accumulating more. You’re a good friend, but right now, I need to accumulate for my family because it’s not enough for you and I. And so we love never enough because of this very thought that there’s not enough for everybody. I really trained myself to live in abundance and trust that there’s enough for you, for me, and they’ll even be leftovers. And I think that’s very thought, but very thinking, which early in my life was intuitive and that I can now, thanks to Richard Rohr and to life lessons, communicate with you. It’s a journey. You can’t just be living in abundance from all these learning. We have to unlearn. All these habits we created, we have to create new habits. We have to create new ways of thinking, which in itself is a challenge. But I think just starting that path opens a lot of doors. So asking myself whether I live in a scarcity complex, or whether I live in abundance. Just the question itself has been transformative in my life.

JP McAvoy: That’s so powerful, and it’s so important to ask those questions. So many people, as you say, live in that place of scarcity where they certainly don’t need to. And to even ask the question, make yourself aware of it, and then begin to believe that there is abundance. Because it is an abundant society, and there is enough for everybody. And if we believe it, I’ve watched it happen myself countless times as well, so I absolutely agree with the philosophy. And I think you just shared that beautifully. Thank you for that. And I’d be remiss if I got a couple more questions before we wrap up here. We talk of the times, and it’s been through the show here, there’s been a current of times, what’s occurring with artificial intelligence? How does it feed into some of the things that we’ve just discussed here? Are you making use of AI? What are your thoughts on AI? How is AI going to allow us to continue to experience abundance?

Jerome Scullino: Okay. I used to code, and so I understand the basis of what AI is. But I think I expressed this earlier to you, the thought the word is limited. The word is never what is. So when you understand that everything we say, everything we express, if we leave it to the world is a lie, because it’s not what it is. And is open to interpretation, then we understand that AI which is based on that, and solely that is limited to that, is limited to that language. So I don’t know. I’m going to try to express my thought better. Mathematics is a language, and you can have two different languages with two different assumptions. So Euclidean mathematics is based on the assumption that two power lines never meet. We cannot argue with that statement. We use Euclidean math every day, right? Non-Euclidean math is based on the assumption that two power lines meet, and we can’t refute that fact either because we use our bad mathematics every day. If we want to fly to the moon, we want to build buildings, we need Euclidean math. If you believe that the Earth is round, you need non Euclidean math. If you both walk straight in a power line from the same space, you both arrive at the North Pole and meet. So to come back to AI, AI is basically based on assumptions and the language. But the truth is, I’m not ready for that. Two, I think because of both languages they have for me, AI is a great productivity tool. And so if we get trapped by the words and the concepts, then we know better than AI. And if we’re capable of seeing what the tool is, we really come to the realization that we are really a sum of assumptions, but we have a choice in goals, and that’s what differentiates us. I think AI doesn’t scare us anymore.

JP McAvoy: It’s interesting. There’s a theme running through this conversation. The way we began, from a photograph you’re capturing, you know what can’t be seen, right? We’re describing in math or language models that they’re limited. There’s more beyond those things that aren’t captured by the language. When you say language is imperfect, it doesn’t capture everything. We use words to try to capture the essence of our meaning, but they are limited by the words. We’re limited by the words available to us where there is so much more. And I think from this conversation, I think that’s what we’re identifying. You live your life in a way you know that there’s so much more, and you work within the constraints of the language and society. But you know there’s more, and you trust that you’re going to get to that next spot as well. There’s more to it, isn’t there?

Jerome Scullino: Yes, I’m thirsty for more. Our mind is inquisitive. And the fact that death makes it so interesting, because we want to know what is, what is not. Why not? What does it mean? And meanwhile, if it’s a journey, why can’t we enjoy the journey? Why do we need to enjoy your pains, enjoy your depression, enjoy your joys, enjoy the pleasures? Why is there such an idea of, I sacrifice the inner voice, I sacrifice the question, I sacrifice the experimenting. So when a child learns how to walk, does he give up because he fell? No, I think he loves it, and just gets up again. There’s no doubt in his mind that he will walk.

JP McAvoy: That’s the way. And that’s the way we’re talking is we go on this journey. You’re approaching from that same mindset, which is so powerful. And you say that sometimes along the way, people are taught, well, you got to walk this way. There’s a certain way to walk. You see how people will hunch over or be in a certain position where the reality doesn’t have to be. We can unlearn some of those things and walk better.Jerome, I really appreciate this. This has been great. I’m looking forward to having this chat. We’re talking about a number of things again. Just to remind people the best way to find your work and to connect with you if they wish, what’s the best way for them to find you?

Jerome Scullino: So my website at jerome.art, J-E-R-O-M-E.A-R-T, that’s the best way to find me. Please go visit my website. Comment on my Instagram, which is jeromeartphotography. I’m on LinkedIn too. So go there. I really enjoy connecting with anyone. You don’t have to come to the studio and be a client to converse with me. I love meeting people to allow new ideas. 

JP McAvoy: It’s so true. Please do go visit. Please do say hello to Jerome. You get connected with people at certain times, in certain ways. I’ve been so happy to connect with you. Love you very much. I appreciate the way that you put it out there, Jerome. And I think more people need to be doing it where you are, right? I’m glad we’ve been able to amplify a little bit here through this conversation here today. There’s so many wonderful things that you imparted here today. I like to end these shows with something that people listen to, whether they’re driving or drifting off to sleep, that they can take with them through the rest of the day, through the rest of the night. Something that worked for you through the years, perhaps something that somebody shared with you. It doesn’t be one thing, but a philosophy. Or I know we’ve spoken of many of them during this conversation, but somebody leaving this conversation with us here today, whoa, what would you say for them to take with them and perhaps pass on to somebody else?

Jerome Scullino: There’s no freedom with no discipline. That’s a lesson I learned when I was at university in Canada. A good friend of mine, he used to be a concertist, a pianist, and I’ve always been a bit of a rebel, and a bit of an anarchist. I never liked authority. He called me out on it one day and said, Jerome, you have no discipline. And I took that word as something authoritative. I look at the word discipline with a lot of negative connotation. But I don’t think I would be where I am today if I had not given more thought to what he said when he told me, because there’s no freedom with no discipline. And I realize that unless you can discipline yourself, you cannot reach your goals, and you cannot reach a certain quality of life. If you don’t cook regular meals for yourself or healthy meals, you can’t be healthy. If you don’t sleep regularly, you can’t have the energy to achieve your dreams. So when I started to really discipline myself, discipline my thoughts, be systematic about the things that we don’t like to do, I don’t think I’ll be able to to achieve what I do now, have the strength of confidence that I have in myself. So yeah, there’s no freedom with no discipline. 

JP McAvoy: Great stuff. From this conversation, all the ability to thrive and to do all the things that we’re passionate about as we discussed throughout the show, as you say, you gotta put the boots and suspenders, right? The work’s gotta be done as well. And the other thing, if you talk about it as entrepreneurs, you certainly have a passion. But let’s not forget that there’s also a lot of hard work that comes with that as well. Jerome, thanks so much.

Jerome Scullino: I want to thank you because of the opportunity. I’ve actually never been part of a podcast like this. This is a new experience, and I’m so grateful. I’m so grateful to have met you and your family. Thank you so much. I’m extremely grateful.

JP McAvoy: Great to have you. Thank you as well. I’ve really enjoyed the journey so far as we’ve lived it on purpose and in love. And I look forward to continuing the journey with you, and perhaps we’ll revisit this conversation in a couple years time.

Jerome Scullino: Oh, I love that. 

JP McAvoy: Talk to you soon.