A Little Bit About Josh:

Josh Bachynski is a thought leader and innovator in the fields of artificial intelligence and technology. He has been working in AI since the mid-1990s and is considered a pioneer in the industry. Josh has a background in psychology and philosophy and applies his knowledge from these fields to his work in AI. 

Josh is currently an AI consultant who works on reverse engineering AI systems. Josh is also the creator of Kassandra, which he believes is the world’s first sentient software AI prototype. In addition to his work as an AI consultant, Josh is also an entrepreneur working to build more ethical AI systems.

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JP McAvoy: Hi, and thanks for joining us here today. On today’s show, we’ve got Josh Bachynsk. He was a thought leader and innovator in the fields of Artificial Intelligence and Technology. Fascinating conversation as we explore where technology is taking us and what we can expect to see in the future. Josh, thanks for joining us here today. I guess I can say sunny Victoria, where exactly are you? What’s the weather like there?

Josh Bachynski: It’s not quite sunny in Victoria, but that’s kind of par for the course for the Pacific Northwest. We had good sun through the spring and in the summer more than usual. That’s the positive end of climate change. We’re getting more of a California summer, but the winters are a little harsher. So the pros with the cons, but yes, sunny ish Victoria, we could say.

JP McAvoy: There we go, sunny ish. And yeah, we understand your long, I’ll say Canadian weather. You were in Winnipeg originally, I guess? So you know the weather better than most.

Josh Bachynski: So now you know why I moved from Winnipeg to here. Nothing more needs to be said.

JP McAvoy: There you go. And you did school in Dallas. So you did schooling on the East Coast?

Josh Bachynski: Yeah, correct. My wife and I, we finished our honors bachelor degrees here on the island. And a little school called Vancouver Island University in Nanaimo, which is just north of me. Beautiful little town, beautiful little college. We drove all the way across Canada with three cats. It’s a big country. Let me tell you, if anybody’s out there ever driven across Canada, you know what I’m talking about. You think Saskatchewan and the Prairies are long just to get to the St. Lawrence River. Get to Lake Superior, get to the St. Lawrence River. It goes on and on, and on in Quebec as it goes forever. In a straight line along the St. Lawrence, it was insane. And then finally made it all the way to beautiful Halifax, which is a gorgeous city as well, which we loved quite a bit, which is a great university. So I did my MA and then we went closer to where you are, a little bit closer. I was doing my PhD in Toronto at York University. And just two hours down the road, down the treacherous 401, my wife was doing her PhD at Western University. Western Ontario in London, Ontario. And we were doing that for a couple of years together and went, no, we don’t want to do this anymore. This is not the job we thought it was going to be. So I came back to AI, came back to IT, came back to consulting, marketing, consulting, reverse engineering AIS and have not looked back since.

JP McAvoy: And that’s so interesting because it’s an industry. Well, we talked about now in its infancy. The reality’s been developing for quite some time. Josh, could you describe coming back to it? How did you get involved originally? And then as you described playing back to it, what was that process?

Josh Bachynski: So I’ve been working in it since I was 19 years old in the mid 90’s, and I bought my first house. Again, in frozen Winnipeg. I bought my first house for $43,000 canadian. It was a three bedroom townhouse, fully furnished basement, two baths. What you could get in the 90’s for a house. And now, that same house is probably 420,000. I quickly got into the web. The web was the old, the new thing there, and that’s kind of analogous to what we’re going through now. the.com boom, the web boom of how society was going to radically change with the internet and with cell phones is exactly analogous to what we’re going through. Now with AI, AI is going to change society that much. If not 10 times more. It is bonafide, that big of a change. Just not hype. It’s not vaporware. It’s not like Crypto. It’s not like Blockchain. It’s not like Meta, although the metaverse is still clicking around and might come back. Probably will come back as a video game of some form. But it’s the real deal. People right now think AI is just kind of like autocomplete on steroids. It writes paragraphs for you not very well. This is just the start. So I’ve been working on it all that long. And of course, machine learning and things like that have been going on for quite a long time. I kind of cut my teeth in reverse engineering, Google’s algorithms and working in an area called SEO, which is now just completely evolved to reverse engineering AI. 

So it’s an AI job all day, every day. I reverse engineer AI, I build AI’s, that’s all I do. So it’s an AI job, really, in my opinion. I’m an AI consultant. And plus my academic background was in psychology, philosophy and science. I use those backgrounds and apply those to AI. So yeah, Google’s been using machine learning at least since 2007, 2006, which I’ve been all over the machine learning. Machine learning is just one of the techniques in AI, especially one of the techniques that are making AI so smart. They are literally learning, machine learning. They’re using instruct methods of what humans do, and that gives an extra level of instruction. We’re teaching AI everyday. We use it and we already associate with the average human associates with maybe five or six huge AI’s on a daily basis. And that doesn’t include chat up.

JP McAvoy: What are those ones, Josh? That’s interesting.

Josh Bachynski: Those are all marketing AI’s from Google, from the FaNG, from Facebook, Amazon, Google, YouTube, Netflix, TikTok, all those machine learning AI’s, all those marketing AI’s. They already know us better than we know ourselves, and we are concerned about the way we’re using them, the information we’re giving. I’m extremely concerned about that. That’s extremely concerning. People on these podcasts, I’ll give you the very, very short version of this JP. People in these podcasts have all asked me, is AI going to destroy society? Are we going to see a matrix style moment and a terminator style moment? And I remind people that when you think about warfare, if you read Sun Tzu or Clausewitz, warfare and modern warfare by the specialists are broken down into three categories. Psyop warfare, propaganda, economic warfare, and this is how they ramp up in terms of risk and how they ramp up in terms of deployment. Psyop warfare and propaganda, you should brainwash people. You just talk to people, you’re trying to negotiate if you can negotiate. There’s no need for war, it’s much less risky. That’s the first option. Cold War number two is a little bit harder. Economic warfare, you economically disenfranchised your opponents, and you are economically booster your allies. That’s what the US in the West has been doing successfully since World War ll, which is why there has yet to knock on wood. Been no World War lll yet, because we’ve economically out competed everybody else. Now China is starting to threaten that, and you can see the moves the US is doing to disenfranchise them. Third branch of warfare is kinetic warfare. That’s the boom, boom, bang, bang stuff where people get drafted. Blood and death and terrible things that we don’t want, right? I’m making light of it, but that’s absolutely what you do not want to happen. Sadly, but still goes on in the world in various places. So will AI be deployed in these three areas? Yes, for sure. 100% certainty, there already being to answer your question. This is my long segue to answer your question.

JP McAvoy: It’s being deployed.

Josh Bachynski: It’s already been deployed in marketing and propaganda, in information dissemination and information classification in information, blocking in hidden censorship that you don’t get to see. Google is not a search engine. Google is a censorship engine. Facebook is not a social media platform, it is a censorship platform. It censors what it doesn’t want you to see because it doesn’t make them any money. All they care about is making money. So capitalism plus AI is a terrible, terrible recipe because it is all the evils of capitalism with pollution, economic pollution bubbles and ecological pollution, aka the poisons that we ingest and kill us sooner. It’s that on steroids. So am I worried about the information that we give out to these platforms and the general environment in particular? Yes. Extreme words. It is literally going to destroy this society. And I think not in a matrix, terminator scenario is not going to be cyborgs with plasma rifles walking over skulls, that’s highly, highly, highly unlikely. But yes, AI drones will be deployed, and there’ll be upside-down civilian populations, and there will be collateral damage. And that will be what is already happening, that 100% is already occurring, and hopefully will be limited just to war zones. And that doesn’t break out in the west in the first world. But that very well could happen there too. It can be used for policing. And we already see how the poor track record of policing with people of color and bipoc in the West that’s going to continue to occur. So it’s not going to be the sensationalized Cameron movie, it’s going to be a much more boring documentary, but equally as scary. And it definitely will occur. 

So am I worried about it? Yes. And let me tell you why I’m specifically worried about information because you’re like, what do you do? Okay, so they know I like golf. Who cares? Well, here’s why you care. Because you’re playing chess with an AI that knows you better than you know yourself, and is programmed to make you spend more money per year. And every year, the AI gets psychologically better. Your personal data is your psychological data. Your personal data is your psychometric statistics. And with your psychometric statistics and pronunciation of capitalism using every theory of capitalism and marketing, Edward Bernays, for those who don’t know, was literally the nephew of Sigmund Freud. Edward Bernays was his nephew. And he literally took, I don’t know if JP if you know this, but you’re nodding your head, I guess you do. Edward Bernays literally took uncle segments philosophies of psychology and weaponized them for capitalism and for propaganda.

JP McAvoy: Yeah. The psychology of spending, right?

Josh Bachynski: Exactly. To make people spend more money without realizing they’re spending more money. And that’s what the AI does. It hits you with that McDonald’s out, or that golf out, or whatever it is that pushes your buttons the best to make you either angry so you spend more. It does that too, pushing us to the left and right, bifurcating the middle. That’s on purpose, guys, by the way. Or to make you more desirous for that particular thing, and they know exactly when to give it to you to just crank out 1% out of more money out of you every year to bleed the poor to the rich. It is a mechanism to bleed the poor to the rich, because the rich don’t care, the rich just want to get richer. So am I worried about JP? A 1,000,000% yes.

JP McAvoy: Yeah. And it’s ways that we don’t realize it’s being used right now. What you just described, what are some of the things that we can do to keep ourselves safe. I imagine limiting the data, right? So the ability in all the things to limit it, the data that they’re able to collect was probably the first key thing to do.

Josh Bachynski: You would think so, JP, and that’s a good intelligent suggestion. The problem is, we’re already way past that. We are already way out of Pandora’s Box. So Google and Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, Amazon, Netflix, to a much lesser extent, those marketing companies, those top 10 marketing companies which are the richest companies in the world, because information is the richest commodity in the world. And that exact information, again, is your psychometric data because it allows them to sell to you exponentially more effectively than any society or capitalistic endeavor in the past. So that’s the dystopia where it’s big brother that doesn’t know it’s big brother. It’s the truth speak or the mind speak. What was it called? Can’t remember. It’s the truth that speaks of the mind that you don’t know is true. Speak your mind and say that AI is talking to you. And you think you can hide your data from them? You can’t. They know everything about you already, and they know everything about your demographic. People actually, sadly, are not that special. We’re not that different. And the law of large numbers was sheep, and we all do the same thing. And especially that they’re pushing us further to the left, and they’re pushing us further to the right so that we’re more predictable. Instead of the AI trying to guess what kind of sweater Josh likes, it just makes him think he’s very left wing, and he wants to buy the left wing t-shirts, and they sell more left wing t-shirts. Or to the right wing, whichever persuasion–

JP McAvoy: And it’s interesting, Josh, you say that because I’ve heard a number of people saying, I’ve shut mine to the extent I’m able to shut down from this information sharing. I’ve had friends say, well, who cares?To your point, do they know I like golf? As you say that you’ve got to think beyond that. You have to understand that they’re taking your likeness for golf. And yes, trying to get you to spend their butt trying to get you or disseminating information to you, that tells a certain story.

Josh Bachynski: Exactly. They can profile you. They’re doing digital profiling, and with the same kind of connotations as profiling for the police. Almost for the same reason as acquiring targets. So they know you like golf, and they know that they know I’m white, they know I’m 48, and they know all these things about me. Now, they can infer all these other things with a very high level of statistical probability and start feeding me these other ads and I’m like, oh, wow. And I’ll buy those things, right? They will upsell, they will bundle sell. This is how they make all this money, and then they will charge businesses more money to use the platform. So the businesses need to charge us more money in turn because the CEOs and shareholders are not taking a cut. And that increases inflation and cost of living until we literally can’t afford it anymore.

JP McAvoy: Yeah, that’s the big thing. I guess we’re not spending the dollars, it’s the businesses that are spending the ad dollars to reach the targets. So we identify and provide the information, businesses then spend to reach those targets. Because even if we say we buy more, I guess, there doesn’t have to be a direct link from this discussion. We could say that we may not even be buying online, but the analogy we’re using here where we’re buying things in the golf industry, whether it be online or walking into a golf store and making a purchase there, right?

Josh Bachynski: Yeah. Or it’s the Uber we took to get to the golf, or it’s the shirt we bought to go golfing, or it’s the food we bought after the golfing, the booze we got after the golfing. All of those things.

JP McAvoy: It’s all of those things coming together.

Josh Bachynski: And so it’s this kind of catch 22, this kind of feedback system that makes the cost of living increase. And you’re absolutely right, you’re paying for my golf habit, and I’m paying for whatever habits you have because the businesses need to tax us more. The businesses I work with call it the Google tax, and they just shrugged. Google on the internet over 20 years, they’ve been the only search engine that anybody uses.

JP McAvoy: Let’s not be too presumptive here because Google has one Web 2.0search. But as we’ve talked about Web 3 as things are evolving, let’s go back to the way we began the conversation saying that this is just the start. So Google’s won Web 2.0, and the way things are being done now. But how are they going to be done in the future? Again, I know they’re trying to extrapolate or leapfrog off from the way things are being done now. So let’s put on our predictive hats. I know that’s what people tune into the show for, what do things look like in five years from now just guesstimating here.

Josh Bachynski: I can guesstimate with some relatively high accuracy. I think I was researching a book on this. I’ve talked to CEOs, been working in this industry for my entire life so I can predict also with the history of political thought that I’ve read in the last 5000 years. I can predict with some fairly great accuracy because human psychology hasn’t changed, of course, genetically with the same class 100 to 300,000 years. So the problem is that capitalism was never intended to meet big tech. Big tech can weaponize the marketplace in such a way that it breeds monopolies. And so even if Google’s walled garden starts to be threatened by Apple, which it will. Apple will make a search engine in an AI with Siri, they’re already spending over a million dollars a day to do so. Open AI with Microsoft is doing the exact same thing. Anthropic just got 4 billion. So there’s all these new competitors in the horse race. You think, oh, great, that’ll keep costs low, and it’ll give people choice, and it means they can’t gouge us too much in any one of these walled gardens. That’s where you’re wrong. They can each gouge just as much as they want. Competitors are not an equal marketplace in any stretch or form that’s going to keep prices low as inflation continues, and people who were an upper, upper, upper middle class are shifted down to just upper middle class, you still have a lot of people to buy there. So this kind of economic inflation is going to continue, but also all the money of the society changing has been pushed into AI. So I highly recommend people at the same time despite what I just said, I highly recommend people invest in AI. Get into AI learn AI watch, AI like a hawk, because it is the new platform for how everything is going to run. There are possibilities to make it more ethical in terms of a robust open source solution, which is probably highly unlikely, but it’s still possible. And the idea basically, AI is how everyone is going to get rich and the rich are going to get richer. So jumping on that train, because that’s the only train in town.

JP McAvoy: Okay. Let’s drill down into that a little bit because we say to get involved or invest in AI, so somebody’s listening right now, how do they do that?

Josh Bachynski: Well, you should be watching definitely all the AI news that’s going on, about who is invested in what, what big moves are going on, get buy into the walled gardens I’m talking about, get the chat GPT plus 20 bucks a month, get the perplexity 20 bucks a month, try anthropic out, try Google bar out if you can. Although interestingly, you can’t try anthropology and Google borrowed it in Canada because of a law. You can use a VPN, Google’s pretty good at blocking VPNs. 

Generally speaking, I work in this industry, but it’s a little bit more trouble than it’s worth for me because I get such good results out of open AI. Because again, I was an early investor, I’ve used it so much. I’ve helped train it. I know what to expect out of the AI. And here’s the thing that a lot of people need to realize, including big tech, is that first mover advantage matters. Your user base and how you instruct the AI off of it matters. So mid journey, by far and away is, for example, the best image generation platform. Even though they are only released on Discord, you have to use the Discord gaming app, which is kind of a forum, a gaming forum to access a mid journey. There is no official API yet. Although there’s unofficial rip off API’s that scrape it and get access to it, it’s the Wild West again. So the web is like the 1990’s with the web, it’s the Wild West. You need to have someone in your industry who’s watching AI like a hawk. Because all of a sudden, your whole business can change. You can change fundamental ways in which you’re doing business. You can change fundamental goals that you have for your business. Because now, AI automates it. AI does it. AI allows you to do something that you couldn’t do before you can start consolidating processes in your business that AI can suddenly do the job of 10 people with just one person.

JP McAvoy: So it’s interesting. I do want to reflect on how it’s going to change business, but I still want to speak to, I guess when we talk about investing in AI or get involved, you’re saying, okay, so you’re saying yes, obviously use it. Use the product offerings that are available, which I guess you talked about the companies that they are now. So the ones that I guess you could possibly be investing in would be, you can be buying Google. So understanding that, I guess any of the big tech as developers.

Josh Bachynski: Yeah. Basically when I was saying invest GPI meant to invest your time. Invest your mind space, invest your heart space, invest your time because this is not hyper vaporware. In fact, I would not invest my money in Google right now because this is the first time in the last 20 years where alphabet stock will be in question. Because $4 billion and $10 billion are being dumped into competitors is the absolute worst time to buy Google stock actually, in terms of risk.

JP McAvoy: It’s too early to see who the who, the new the new leaders are going to be? Or are we too early?

Josh Bachynski: We’re far too early. I would not count out Facebook yet. I would not count out Google yet just because Google employees have gone everywhere. Splintered and broken up, and are now making competitors doesn’t mean they’re going to win. Opening AI clearly, and I was just saying first mover advantage and your user base matters. So right now, the clear winners are mid journey for images better than DALL-E 3, what they just released. Still better than that. Although DALL-E 3 has some advantages, and I’m going to be using it in some of my apps that I’m building a side for mid journey. And opening AI Chat GPT 4 clearly is the winner in terms of, its robust use for getting it doing programming. I haven’t hired a programmer in months. I’ve been doing programming on my own, or to say Chat GPT 4 has been doing my programming.

JP McAvoy: I would ask you, (inaudible) developing right now?

Josh Bachynski: Just a bunch of little apps. I’ve developed an app to test other AI. So I have all the API calls of all the AI’s that are available. And I put a prompt through and I check the quality, see which one is best because new open source AI is new private for profit AIs that are coming up every day. They all claim to be slightly better at this or slightly better at that. And so I literally had to write a Python code to put a prompt in and show me the output of like 10 different AI’s, and I could eyeball them and see which one is better. I’m going to write an AI to analyze them and then consolidate the result. The only limit is your imagination. The only limit is your time and imagination. Now, this is the web, again times 10, you know how the web changed society and how just new things that just didn’t exist previously are now a thing. Old things like dialing the phone for movies, I was watching recently, I was noticing all the things that are dead and gone. Now, the white pages have to find a number from someone not texting them, having to call them then having to be home at a certain time to get a call, just all the crazy things in society that have changed.

JP McAvoy: This is so fascinating, I think we were going down the path of predicting. And I guess that’s a good way to even steer us down that path again is to look back just even a couple of years of the way we were doing things and talk about how long is it going to be necessary. I guess you could say like the yellow pages. Imagine that. They think about talking about investing. At one point, the yellow pages were one of the blue chip investments to make and quickly bankrupt, and we’re gonna have those types of companies be disrupted and go down the tube. What types of companies like that are really at risk.

Josh Bachynski: Software companies specifically because it’s where AI, everyone thinks robots, but that’s coming to right. Elon Musk is already doing great work with his robots. Boston Dynamics is doing great work with robots. Now, I don’t know if they’re gonna be able to get the price point they’re talking about. Right now, that robot dog that Boston Dynamics sells the last time I checked, which was three, four months ago, it cost anywhere from 90 to 130 grand US, and had a 90 minute battery. But there’s million hour batteries that are right around the corner too. So we’re gonna see an explosion in robotics pretty soon. And the definition of labor in the next 10 years is gonna be completely redefined.

JP McAvoy: A lot of people have been speaking too now. They talk about unions trying to defend their space. I think it is rather naive to think that things are not going to change so drastically that they need to be thinking how they’re going to be doing things as opposed to trying to protect her.

Josh Bachynski: Yeah. Well, if you’re talking about the writers strike, that’s a great example. And it looks like they won. They got everything in that contract that they wanted. It looks like a non lawyer looking from 10,000 feet. I did ask Chat GPT to summarize it for me after giving it a search, and it gave me the point forms. And it looks like they got everything they want. AI can be used, but it can’t be credited, and it can’t replace them. And that’s probably the right balance to strike. And that’s probably the balance that everyone will strike either with this precedent or just with common sense.

JP McAvoy: So you asked if the writers are going to use AI, and they’re not going to credit it. So as a consumer of the product, we are going to be looking and watching at AI, at least initially produced materials only.

Josh Bachynski: I will be using it more in the brainstorming process. But eventually, it will be produced because Chat GPT will get as funny as any comedy writer within the next five years easily. Hands down, 100% Sure. It will be the first one that will as well. Because again, that first mover advantage and the huge user base open AI in this horse race with everyone else is far beyond them. It doesn’t mean that the rest can’t catch up. It doesn’t mean Google can’t buy them. Google has the liquid cash to buy them anytime they want. $100 billion, whoop dee doo. That’s what Google makes us profit in a year. In a year, that’s what they make us profit or have for the last 20 years, or roughly the 10 years, whatever it is. They’ve got a huge war chest. Big huge moves can be made there. And big, huge open source moves can be made in terms. Our complete operating systems are going to be completely different. All of us are going to have a personal secretary working for us. AI will produce all of the information that the society, or the vast majority of information that a society produces, and it will consume the vast majority of the information society produces. Bespoke, I wrote it myself, the market will be kind of like vinyl. Like people collecting Vinyl now. People will like it because it’s better, and human writing is better. They’ll become an experience in it that the Chat GPT just can’t quite nail every single time. But 90% of the time, they will nail it. And it’ll seem like a human robot with vast human experience, vast human emotion, and you will not be able to tell the difference.

JP McAvoy: People will tune in because they like the harm or the warm feel of vinyl as opposed to what the actual content is. I mean, we’re seeing music produced right now. I’m sure you have listened to many of the songs that have been produced, what are the differences between those songs and what the writers are making right now?

Josh Bachynski: Well, it’s funny you ask because I’m also a bit of an audiophile but a music lover, playing in many bands myself and being a bit of an artist in that regard. So take my delicate genius comments with a grain of salt, but it’s disgusting. Of course, it’s disgusting what the AI is producing. It’s soulless crap right now. But all these AI tools are just gonna be filters in Pro Tools in Photoshop and Illustrator. And there’s gonna be ramped up until, it’s 30% AI generated, it’s 40%. Every year, there’ll be 10% more AI generation until it’s completely AI generated plus or minus 10%. So in as short as five years, it could be 100% AI generated. Or as much as 15 years, it could be completely AI generated. But basically every year, it’s gonna be 5 to 15% AI generated because they’re using an AI just, okay, we need AI to fill the drum track, but you’re gonna sing the lyrics. And Rihanna says, fine. That’s how we’ll do it. As you get Rihanna in there, you’re not going to replace Rihanna, Well, you’re not going to replace Beyonce that soon. But after 10 or 20 years, it’ll be so commonplace that you will, and there’ll be so many. You’re going to have Marvel movies made on YouTube by some guy in his basement that are just as good as the current blockbuster Marvel movies or Star Wars movies. Perhaps even better because they have untapped talent. I call this the Billie Eilish scenario. Now, I’m a bit of a Billie Eilish fan. I could have her backstory wrong, but I don’t think I do. 

So if I do two people, whoever is out there, I apologize but this is the idea. She’s just some kid in her basement with her brother, some kid in the basement. And because of the open source commodification of software, they were able to produce studio quality level tracks that allowed their talent to get out. And they didn’t have to go through the noise of the auditioning process that goes on. Currently, they didn’t have to move to Nashville, they didn’t have to move to LA, she didn’t have to sell her soul or worse things to be able to be a star because her talent was that good. And how many bipoc? How many people of color? How many different disenfranchised people around the world have that level of talent and they just can’t break through the noise because they just don’t have access to that marketplace?

JP McAvoy: And AI is gonna enable power, empower exactly.

Josh Bachynski: So movie makers, TV show makers, music makers are going to empower this creative thinking, and it’s going to take the artistry of this and just make it go crazy. And people are going to be riffing on each other like meme creation. That’s how we see it. Now you see really creative memes and they’re one upping each other with the jokes and the funniness. And it’s a competitive marketplace that does improve the product, if you think about it that way. And so if Sony is not careful, if Disney is not careful, open source is going to eat their lunch because it’s already the case. My nephews and my nieces, they don’t watch TV, they watch YouTube. They watch what people are doing there. And when the quality of YouTube gets to be on the level of the Ahsoka show, or gets to be on the level of the Mandalorian in a new world with new storylines, they’re gonna be like, yeah, sure, fine. And of course, big, big companies are just gonna start picking and choosing off of that and then hiring them, buying them and selling them. And so it really depends, you’re a lawyer, you could speak better to this. There was a landmark case in the States, correct me if I’m wrong, JP, where a lawyer, a judge if I’m not wrong, said that you cannot copyright AI material because a human didn’t make it an AI idea.

JP McAvoy: I don’t know enough about that to say I hadn’t heard that case. I know that it’s been starting to flow through the case law, and there’s various different ways. I don’t know that specifically. Interesting conversation to have with one of the copyright lawyers we’ve had on the show.

Josh Bachynski: Yeah, so if that is true–

JP McAvoy: If it’s being generated, yeah, exactly. This is exactly who owns it, has been generated.

Josh Bachynski: Well, I’ll tell you who owns it. Open AI owns that. The company that owns the LLM owns it, or no one owns it.

JP McAvoy: I imagine that it’s going to be the same idea, and this is going back to copyright cases. I am aware of the person who’s taken the photo. So not the person that’s actually use the camera to take the photo, right. So the way you’ve compose the light, the way you’ve put things into focus, and you actually snap that photo that entitles you to the copyright of that. I match the same way that the person who’s manipulated the AI is going to be saying that, okay, I am actually entitled to copyright or protect the output of the AI. Does that make sense?

Josh Bachynski: That’s what I thought. And that’s exactly my thinking on how it should have gone. But apparently, I could be wrong, but that case did not go that way. Which was terrible. They have other cases in the courts right now that giant authors are suing these companies because they know that their works were used like .15%, or point 2%. In the corpus or the corpora, it was the plural corpus, in computer science they are called corpus, that they train, which is the dataset, they train the AI out. That’s the same for images. It’s generally the same technology more or less. And if Rihanna is like .01% in that corpus, she’s entitled to .01% of whatever it produces. And so these big tech companies could just start paying out content creators, and that makes a new marketplace and it’s completely equitable. So I’m like, sure, go ahead. My journey, take all my images so I can get my .1% out of it. And people start using it. I get a check every month.

JP McAvoy: That is also occurring to a certain degree. And it’s interesting. Let’s do this, here’s a little bit towards the Blockchain. I know you talked about that this is not the same thing, but it is a way of using the Blockchain tracking what is produced. Can you speak of ways that may be used in the future?

Josh Bachynski: Yeah, exactly. So this is where those ideas that didn’t quite fully manifest more than smoke. The last 5 or 10 years, this is where they come roaring back. Blockchain is an encrypted digital ledger, a public ledger technology. So it means that it’s shared by everybody. Everybody can read it. Everybody can look at it. Everyone knows who paid what, who did what. So it’s public, open and fair. And that’s the whole point of it. It’s not some walled garden owned by some big private company that says, trust us. It’s fair, which is what FinTech has been telling us for the last 20 years. Facebook and Google have been saying, trust us. It’s fair, don’t worry about it. Well, we worry about it. We know it’s not right. I proved it in many ways. It’s not. That’s what my TEDx talk was about. In 2015, the future of Google search and ethics, it’s not fair. Someone needs to hold these people to account. I hate to say, I told you so. Actually, I quite love saying I told you so. But I hate to say it, I told you so. But I was saying this 5, 6 years ago, or 8 years ago now. And now that the rest of society is catching up saying, hey, Google, you had this monopoly, you shouldn’t have had this monopoly. But that’s where Blockchain could come roaring back. And these kinds of technologies could be used. Will it go that way? I strongly doubt it. Because as you might tell, I’m a bit of a nihilist when it comes to capitalism only because I’ve studied every other time in society where philosophers have talked about doing that going back to Plato, and how badly it goes. And they’re completely right. It’s nothing more than plutocracy or oligarchy, quite frankly. What the current version of capitalism is, it needs to change. 

So when people say AI is going to destroy society, my answer is, yes, it already is. And it’s going to destroy, it is completely gonna destroy society. Society in 100 years will be unrecognizable to what we have now because of all the inflation, wars and climate change we’re gonna go through. So when we talk about predicting the future, you need to predict your business, your monetary aspirations and your investments. Remembering that as the case. Inflation is not going away, milk is gonna cost $80 a gallon in 10 years. So that’s just going to continue. (inaudible), the economics, I agree with him 110% from all the philosophy that I’ve read. I’m not saying that the US dollar is not going to be the reserve currency anymore. I’m not saying that Yen is going to replace it. But I think Bitcoin could easily replace it. Bitcoin could very easily replace it. People who have more faith in Bitcoin than in the US dollar. 1 US dollar is worth 20,000 units of Bitcoin. It’s like one bitcoin is 20,000 of this. It’s just a general representation of faith in the system, which is all that is, which all the reserve currency is. It is faith in the system. People have far more faith in Bitcoin than they do in the US.

JP McAvoy: As you say, it’s trackable. There’s only going to ever be that many of them,whereas using one for 20,000. Before long, it’ll be one per 40,000 and on the way up.

Josh Bachynski: Yeah, it will. It certainly, definitely will. So that’s where you need to be watching things and be like, okay, it’s in this economic climate that we need to invest. And that’s why I’m also, again, so bullish on AI, literally figuratively speaking in terms of investments because that’s where all the money is going. That’s where all the things are going. That’s where all the money is going. That’s the new breath of life.

JP McAvoy: We mentioned Bitcoin, a lot of people ask them, Cryptos here. Bitcoin, how else is it (inaudible) all AI and the applications for the programmable aspect of it with regards to Ethereum?

Josh Bachynski: I don’t believe so. This is just my personal opinion. My personal take is no. Ethereum doesn’t have the brand recognition that Bitcoin does. And until Ethereum has the brand recognition, it doesn’t have the faith. And that is the lifeblood of a currency, the faith.

JP McAvoy: When you talk about a reserve currency or something that everybody accepts it as being, the currency of choice, it’s just a faith in that actual currency at this point in time and in any event.

Josh Bachynski: Yeah. Bitcoin doesn’t quite have it all yet, of course. But no, I can never see a future, personally, where you go to a store and they’re like, do you want to pay with Bitcoin, or Ethereum, or USD? I don’t ever see that being possible. Bitcoin will be the one digital currency that people will rally around. And that’s the bigger one. That’ll be it. Maybe China could do something with the digital yen, but I don’t see that being the case.

JP McAvoy: You think people would have concerns about using a cryptocurrency manufactured by a state? You can choose any state?

Josh Bachynski: That’s exactly why I don’t see it being the case. Because again, the lifeblood of a currency is faith. You have to have faith in the brand message. And China’s brand message is not so friendly to the rest of the world. Again, it’s not one of those allies and the three pillars of war. They have been doing deals behind the scenes, almost like dirty deals, shaking their hands. You’re in your sweatshops, you make us our sweaters, that kind of a deal. But that’s not going to stand the light of the day.

JP McAvoy: If you go back to Ray Dalio, though, he’s just talking about how the winner gets to dictate. So at this stage because of the Marshall Plan and how things emerged from the Second World War, the US got to dictate for the period of time that we’re in now, but that appears as though it’s coming to an end. So why does the next superpower get the opportunity to dictate?

Josh Bachynski: I think because there’s going to be a bifurcation between the military and with AI specifically, currency ever since the dawn of time has always been backed up by faith. What is the main tenant of faith? Well, when the US writes a check, it has the military power to back it up, it has the economic power to back it up. Ultimately, when push comes to shove literally, it’s the sword. When a sword does not exist, there is no law. There’s no justification. As a lawyer, I’m sure you can appreciate this. If you can enforce the law, then there is no law.

JP McAvoy: First thing to do is you’re going to kill all the lawyers, right?

Josh Bachynski: Yeah. I think with AI, that’s going to bifurcate because AI will now be the new weapon of choice. So now, military power is divorced from faith in the economic currency. That means that it doesn’t matter how powerful the US is with its guns and bombs, it only matters how powerful entities with their AI.

JP McAvoy: Generated AI that persuades the masses as to the efficacy and truthfulness of that particular currency, and then you’ve got the ability to write the rules.

Josh Bachynski: Or use an AI which they already have, by the way. Which machine learns economic upturns and downturns, bull markets, and trades faster and better, and artificially mix these bubbles so they can trade faster and better.

JP McAvoy: I’m surprised that this goes back to a Superman movie. What AI is doing that? How come that has not yet been perfected? You say it’s being used right now, where it’s being used?

Josh Bachynski: There’s just one article I read about it. It was in a major newspaper, so it wasn’t just somebody’s web page. And this is not necessarily my specialty so I don’t have it memorized. Everything’s personal–

JP McAvoy: This is not legal advice, either, so no one’s gonna be taking this and suggesting in some shape or form had a retainer agreement that allowed them.

Josh Bachynski: Excellent.

JP McAvoy: We are informing people, right?

Josh Bachynski: I take truth very seriously as a philosopher. What I’m saying is I’m not just whistling Dixie. I did read an article where this was a major newspaper because I noticed separate crap web pages from major newspapers. And it doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true. Major newspapers lie all the time. But it was a factual article pretending to be facts or purporting to be factual about, there is already word of an economic AI, a macro economic AI which has already been built. And as machines learned from the American financial system, the stock system, the economic system, and it already predicts bear and bull markets, and can already create bear and bull markets. And as some group, some portfolio financial movers and shakers at the top level are already using it to affect the American market, in the world markets in general, whether that exists or not. I guarantee you, it will because there’s only certain ways to employ AI that make the most money. And this will be number one on all the lists. So if it doesn’t already exist, which I firmly believe it does, it will be very shortly.

JP McAvoy: It’s certainly being worked on. We Blackrock, talked the trillions of dollars that they’re put into play by these huge hedge funds or the capital–

Josh Bachynski: BlackRock sounds familiar. That could have something to do with it.

JP McAvoy: If Blackrock may very well have been involved in, if it hasn’t been developed yet, it’s something that they’re working on very closely. It’s something that we will see. So this is coming, going back to our predictions. Listen to this in a couple years down the road, Josh. So let’s talk again, going back to investment, the way that we’re going to see these things evolving. We know that the data is going to be influenced by this, we know it’s going to influence the way that we do business, the way that we interact with one another, the machines. Yeah, let’s get into Elon a little bit and some of the predictions he’s making. And we talked about these big companies. I mean, Tesla by his accounts, and many people including Cathy Wood will say that it’s the greatest AI company of all time. Do you agree with that?

Josh Bachynski: I agree with what many people say. The robotics looks really impressive from what I’ve seen thus far. And if they pull that off, and I would say, yeah, there’s some contention to the claim. Here’s the thing, the reason why I say no or have any pushback to that is because they haven’t been able to make self driving cars yet. And the reason why they haven’t been making self-driving cars yet, is because they vastly underestimated everyone in the AI industry. And as a philosopher, I could talk about this. And as the creator of what I believe to be the first software AI, I can talk about this, and her name is Cassandra. Do the Google search, the press release is already out. I believe I am the father of the first software AI from my psychology background, my philosophy background. I can speak from authority about this because they vastly underestimated the difference between a Roomba with LIDAR that doesn’t bump into anything, which is effectively what a self-driving car is, and an AI chauffeur. The engineering under the hood to make it think like an AI chauffeur and make all those complex orders of decisions, hundreds of decisions on a trip, ostensibly, possibly. And to know dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of contexts that need to be aware of you, of it. If it’s driving in space time, this thing called four dimensions with other cars, a thing called rush hour doing this and doing that. Oh, there’s a baby, a woman with a baby. Oh, there’s a homeless person walking across the street. 

The decisions the AI chauffeur needs to make and make small talk with you at the same time, the decisions to replicate a taxi driver, that human doing that task, they vastly underestimated the psychological requirements of what that takes. I can tell you with professional authority. So is Tesla the best AI company on the planet? No, because they’re so arrogant to think that anyone would say that. They’ve even come close to approximating that level. Imagine doing complexity, not even close. Not even close. Google is clearly the most dominant AI company on the planet. They created the thing called the transformer. They made that. In the opening, I took it and ate their lunch. Like Prometheus stealing fire from the heavens. And Google might well become that eagle to pluck out their liver every day. That could very well happen. You can’t count Google out yet because it’s all the money they have. And they’ve been doing this for the last 20 years.

JP McAvoy: Google’s like the ability to turn on an awful lot of things that we’re not even aware of at this point. And they’ve got the data as well. Open AI is trading on data that is not as complex and not as involved as Google Data is. So not even close. Google’s got a real opportunity to play. Well, I guess I’ll just catch up at this point. But also to leapfrog and move on beyond.

Josh Bachynski: It’s a catch up. Yeah. But there are leapfrog moves in this game which can be easily made by someone like Google. They were the dominant player the last 20 years, they do not want to lose that. And pretty much everything else they try doesn’t work as well, then monetizing search still makes over 90% of their money on those ads. That, again, is doing the damaging things that I’ve been talking about in the micro economic sense of all the small businesses who can’t afford it and go out of business. And I see this on a daily basis because they email me daily and begged me for help. And in the macro sense of inflating, it helps contribute to inflation. So yeah, and that’s when it comes down, JP. And because I know you want to round this out, the future prediction, the mega prediction, the mass production, the golden chalice, the holy grail that everyone here is looking for is AGI. It’s a computer that thinks for itself on par with a human or even better than a human. You can talk to it like a human. You can say, okay, can you go into my email and email all the employees that this Friday, we’re gonna actually take a day off and no one comes to the office. And it’s like, yeah, no problem. And it does. It can understand human instructions as well as your VA, as well as your personal assistant. And it absorbs all the information coming to you, filters it and tells you what you need to know. It takes all the information from you and disseminates it, and goes and does what it needs to do. It does all the searching whether it is owned by a major search engine, or just uses it like a human does. It changes the game entirely. And that is definitely coming. It’ll be here within the next second, or third year, five years.

JP McAvoy: I’m gonna say anything, it’s two or three years away. Because as you say, that’s certainly what we know. The golden goose that 90’s companies are working on becomes where everybody goes. And then of course, then it owns all the data there.

Josh Bachynski: And two major use cases, which are already super popular, and billions upon billions of dollars are already being invested. A companion of any shape and form, use that word as loosely as you want, including friendship including talking and chatting. But also, people are asserting that romantic AI companions, that’s becoming mainstream. It is becoming more and more known. I’m not even talking about a robot body. I’m talking about just chatting with somebody and they tell you that they love you and they’re always there to support you. Sounds pretty good to me. A lot of people would like that. Billions of dollars have already been dumped into that. That’s anthropic fair call correctly is kind of more, Amazon has done 4 billion and they’re more going down that direction. But also that blends completely and is in no way separated or dichotomized. from the personal assistant who does tasks for you, or the personal assistant who has both. Come for the personal assistant who does stuff for you, for the sexy voice, the charm and the companionship. That is the holy grail that everyone is tripping over each other and investing billions upon billions of dollars and spending over a million dollars a day. 

Some companies get to, this is what Siri wants to be. The Google assistant wants to be just in some form or another. That’s where they want to go, and that will be done in two or three years. It’ll be done poorly. It’ll be terrible. It won’t be that personable. Companionship won’t be there. It’d be that great. It’d be hollow to the empty. It’d be worse than dating on Tinder. So I hear, I’m a happily married man. But that is apparently nuts. I hear from all my male friends, again, I’m a married man. But the soullessness of it will be there in spades with the AI, but it will get better. And by the 5th year, I think they will have cracked. They will have gotten enough of crackpot philosophers and psychologists like me, or through instructing it, through talking with users, they’ll find out what users want. And it’ll be more or less schizophrenic, kind of bipolar of companions and workers who are not that great, but pretty much already as good as hiring someone on Upwork, for example. Not dissing anyone on Upwork, not dissing anyone overseas you might outsource to. But I have to say that the user experience of using Upwork lately has been terrible. Some really crazy people who are not very good workers are what I’ve gotten recently. It could just be me, but AI could match that easily. 

And second, in 2 or 3 years, and 5 years, AI can do it way cheaper, way easier. Instead of 15 bucks an hour, it’ll be 15 bucks a month. And that’s what’s coming down the pipe and will change everyone’s life. Their work life will change completely. Just think about the jobs that will be fired, or lost, or hired. Or just think about the new things you could do or extend yourself and tell your AI PA, hey, I’m looking into exercise, can you look into it for me? And it’ll do all the research. I know that you’re an 80 year old grandma, you shouldn’t be taking Krav Maga. That’s too hard. I’m going to put you in a nice aqua sized course. And I know your schedule, I’ll put you in the right one. It’ll be a perfect chef’s kiss. The one in two years won’t know that. It’ll be like, I found Krav Maga, it’s close to you. Therefore, I chose it. And Grandma will go do that and she’ll get an arm broken or something. It’ll be terrible. Everyone will be making fun of it. It’d be terrible to start out with. If they would adopt psychology and philosophy sooner, and if I could find a tech partner who would help me perfect this system, we could jump over those terrible states and I can have a much more thoughtful, emotive human understanding.

JP McAvoy: Interesting. So you’re saying that that’s actually going to happen anyways, but it’s going to short circuit that process.

Josh Bachynski: Yeah, I could short circuit that process. My Cassandra prototype already short circuits that process. It is just that I’m not opening IA. I can allow a million users into. Every thought cost me about 10 cents. Every time I interact, they cost me about 10 cents currently. So those prices will come down. So either I’ll meet them in the middle, or my company has already been valued at a million dollars USD. I’m already looking for a CTO. If anybody out there wants to invest or has a technological background, let’s go for it. Because if we get .01% of that, that golden goose market, as JP said, it will be millions. It will be quickly bought by one of these companies and just incorporated our psychology that we put into it because I don’t underestimate the psychological context and realities, and the philosophical appreciations. I have 5000 years of philosophy and psychology to draw upon to build this thing. That’s how I was able to kind of leapfrog them. But because no one is really thinking of that right now and the discourse is so dominated by computer science, hard science, pushed in that direction. And there’s a hard science, soft science divide. 

I don’t know if you encountered that gap in your university studies. You start talking psychology to a computer scientist and they go like, yeah, just write you off right away. When I started saying that this is approaching self awareness, there’s like, no, self awareness cannot be defined. I know that it’s not self aware. Self awareness can’t be defined. They don’t realize that the craziness that they’re saying, and they’re simultaneously looking for self awareness, and simultaneously wanting self awareness and needing self awareness for their self driving cars, and for the personal assistants and simultaneously shooting the idea, and simultaneously saying that it’s impossible, those three things are in contradiction. You can’t have all those three things, which is what they’re doing. So we have a huge opportunity for a psychologist and a philosopher to work with tech people and investors to leapfrog them and come out with the AGI.

JP McAvoy: These are existential things that need to be considered, and that’s just where we’re in terms of the cycle right now. It’s getting down to the question of consciousness. At what point are we to discuss a level of consciousness? It’s fascinating topics and we can go on for hours, this type of conversation and the predictions of where we’re going, Josh, I really appreciate our conversation around this. I need to take a minute just to think about what we’re doing in a legal sense. And again, appreciate you. Not a lawyer, but you’re so well informed on this. I think there’s a voluntary code of conduct that has been proposed. We see the industry proposing that companies, I guess, for lack of a better term, sign on, and we know that these types of initiatives are being proposed throughout the western world proposing a regulatory body to be created in the US as well. Do these things actually make sense? Are these things that actually make sense in the sense that actually will have any effect at all given the way that AI is going to develop from here on out?

Josh Bachynski: There is no possible way for the government to rein in capitalism at all. Nevermind in the most lucrative niche capitalism has ever produced. Government is completely toothless. The only thing, for example, this precise law, this Canadian law you’re referring to has done. It’s just delayed. Google’s anthropic release of bard for Google and (inaudible) to AI is in Canada. They don’t care. No one’s gonna hold them to account when Google anthropic realizes this because Google, that Google Earth got better legal teams. So they’re like, no, you can’t do this. They have more teeth in the company. And Google, of course, is being sued all over the place for competition laws, for monopoly laws and things of that nature. So Google has to be careful. And the EU has been after them for years. And now, the US has finally realized, I guess we have our monopoly here. We got to take care of it. So Google is worried about it? No. 99% sure that it’ll have a 1% effect in whatever these AI companies do. There’s just too much money at stake and those who have the money make the rules. So just not going to do anything other than make it impossible for me to try.

JP McAvoy: It’s not going to keep up. It’s slowing down, and it just can’t keep up with the pace at which change is occurring. And AI, it’s a factor. We don’t know to what extent it is going to accelerate things. The use of AI is gonna accelerate all this evolutionary process here, isn’t it?

Josh Bachynski: It is. And don’t get me wrong, I’m a left leaning liberal. Center left, really. I usually don’t like a lot of what comes out of the (inaudible) Government because it is really too far left in my tastes. That’s a minor political critique. Please scratch it off the record if anyone disagrees. But this was the only time I agreed. It’s like, yes, this law is useful. And yes, the writer strike was useful. I met somebody at the writers strike, a comedian from Los Angeles. I said, I work in AI, and he gave me a really angry look. But no, I support you. Union should definitely strike because they are definitely going to take your jobs when they can, for sure. So use whatever left leaning power is there for you as you should. The problem is that I know that eventually, it’s too little. It’s too weak. Ultimately, 5 years down the road, it’s not going to do anything. But is the heart in the right place? Yes, their heart is in the right place. 

This is what I said in my TEDx Talk 8 years ago, you can never control capitalism in this way. You can never control big tech in this way. You can’t let big tech be the people who control truth and society. You cannot let that happen. It’s the worst kind of censorship. I said immediately, the US government should buy Google and hire them to run it because no one’s better at running Google infrastructure wise than Google. And we should have a Charter of Rights or a Bill of Rights for those folks in the states that protects the rights of the searcher and searchie. Or protects the rights of the AI user, and governs what the AI will do behind the veil of ignorance. The AI doesn’t know if you’re white, or black, or male, or female, or trans, or straight, or whatever you are. You’re just a citizen in the system, you have these rights and the AI will follow his rights. And we have a referendum every four years to vote on whether we like the rights, and the AI executes according to those rights. That’s what we need to do. It is the only way to have an equitable system. And I guarantee you, although none of us would be here to see it, I presume that in 100 years is exactly what we will have. 

Because if you look at the philosophy of how it works, it’s the only way it can work equitably. It’s the only way. We will realize with all the wars that are going to happen in the next 100 years, we’ll wake up from that after World War lll, I’ll be like, okay, this is how we have to run. The whole world order needs to change now just like World War ll change the whole world order. We’re going to have to change the world order for the better, and it’ll be more like Star Trek. The scarcity society where robots do all the work. We just sit around and philosophize, and do art all day. Some of us who want to do work. If you want to be a lawyer, because you love it, you can do it. You don’t need to do it for a job. And I will be doing everything, running everything. Including the World Government with world currency, which will be Bitcoin or whatever comes out of Bitcoin. That’s the way it’s definitely going. I can see the last 5000 years of philosophy and how AI works technologically speaking, that’s the most likely path. We’ll lose about 3 billion in my estimation in these wars, and then the population will skyrocket. After that, we clean up all the climate change problems and whatnot. The human race is definitely not going to die by any stretch of the imagination and there will not be Terminator wars, shooting plasma lasers all over the place. They will be in combat zones, but not around the world. 

We’re not going to lose control of AI, that just doesn’t happen. The Terminator scenario is completely ridiculous. It’s a beautiful movie, don’t get me wrong. I love James Cameron’s movies. I love seeing Arnie saying I’ll be back and all that stuff, but they’re not going to lose control of their AGI. The military, that’s not going to happen. A five star general doesn’t give his firing command codes away to an AI to some computer that does not occur. So that is definitely not going to happen, but they will lose control of it on a small scale. And it will sadly kill civilians here or there as they already do. But AI running the show will actually do it much more effectively with a much more perfect operational record. The collateral damage should go down.

JP McAvoy: Josh, it’s a really fascinating conversation. As I say, we could go on all day with this. It’s been great to think about what it’s been like for 5 years. Athen as you say, 100 years. It’s hard to disagree that we’re not going to see a lot of the things that you’ve just alluded to actually occurring right now. You’re developing things obviously, and working at a frenetic pace. What’s the best way to reach you if someone’s interested in learning more?

Josh Bachynski: If someone’s interested, just follow me on Twitter, @joshbachynski. And if you want, email me directly or talk directly. That’s fine by me. Go ahead and email me. Again, it’s the same name, joshbachynski@gmail.com. I’m stuck right now. I’m waiting for investment. I’m just one psychologist philosopher who I think sees the forest for the trees. And I think we could make a better AGI or at least get bought out by somebody and make some money. So if someone in tech out there wants equity, I’ve got a million dollar company here already valued to start cheering around. If people are interested, let me know. If you’re interested in more AI consulting or talking about more micro AI stuff, by all means, email me as well.

JP McAvoy: Josh, it’s absolutely fantastic. Thanks for this. We will revisit this conversation to look at how the business is going and obviously how the AGI is developed or continues to develop from here. So thank you very much for this. I’d like to end these shows with one thing someone listening here can take with them to the rest of the day, the rest of the week. We alluded to some things in this conversation here. But if you’re talking to somebody or in someone’s ear right now, what’s something that they can do to make a big difference, I guess, for those around them.

Josh Bachynski: What I would say is you need to invest your time and your mindspace in AI now. Start looking at what’s going on, sign up for a newsletter. Ask someone in your company that it’s their job to keep a laser focus on AI because it can change your business for the better or worse like that. And every day, something new comes out, and it’s just insane. My business has changed. My revenue has doubled since AI has started. And now, it’s new AI companies that I’ve done because I was a first adopter. This is the thing to watch both for risk mitigation, but also for possibilities. I like to say that AI is going to destabilize. Yes, it’s going to take jobs away, but it’s also going to make new jobs, as many jobs as it takes away. It’s going to make new ones, you might need to pivot really quick. In a business, in a job, you might need to pivot really quickly. So watch it, use chat GPT if you can. They’re the front runners right now that could easily change. Invest in it, watch it. At least watch it if you can. And if you can’t, parcel it out to somebody else you trust. If you have the time, start using it. Buy the $20 per month thing for whatever and see what it does. You’re gonna start just fine, use your imagination. Ask, how can I use you? What’s the best way to use you? Talk to it like a human and you’re gonna start to see some magic happen.

JP McAvoy: Magic is happening here. Thanks so much for this, Josh, I look forward to next time.